More drunken dutch think tank in action! :D Coooool

* Performing some aggressive actions makes you lose industry. The industry you lose is independent from the fame you may gain from these actions.

Can we be more specific or are you still working this out?

Essentially, most things that give you fame will also take away industry. So, invasions, black operations and dark spells make you lose industry.

The exception is land grabs (standard, barren or commandeer) or raids, which give fame and industry. The other aggressive thing that you can do, pillages, gives industry instead of taking it away (but pillage does not, and will not, give fame).

no more fame bonuses to pop...well temps are dead...

and more powerful too if you let them live ;)

What do you think of an eagle with 20k Fame... those will be the ultimate killers

Eagles need to do pretty weird things to start being effective though :)

The exception is land grabs (standard, barren or commandeer) or raids, which give fame and industry. The other aggressive thing that you can do, pillages, gives industry instead of taking it away (but pillage does not, and will not, give fame).

of course......jeezzz what a load of crap and bullshit coming our way again......

Yeah its getting more difficult... especially for the new players just joining Ork

are we planning to bomb the white house, or just playing fucking orkfia? :s

Maybe not necessarily. Looks like these three figures will be determined by ones playing style, and not the other way around... It might be best to tuck this description away in some obscure hard-to-reach corner of the guide and let new players feel their way around. I know I'm going to ignore these figures at first and see what happens.

On another note, who the hell came up with 'toughness'? My, that is one ugly word :p Didn't anyone suggest 'resilience', 'stamina', 'temper', 'irritability'? :p

noobs would need a degree in rocket science now...

Yeah, the way any of the three are gained is meant to be a process that is explored and discovered by players themselves. But someone wanted the specifics, so I gave them.

There is always wailing when the specifics are given, but it's not so complex in practice. ;P

I considered 'fortitude,' but then I disliked that 'industry' didn't start with an 'f.' Partial alliteration? Yuck.

Resilience seems like a good one, though a bit long.

Stamina conceptually does not fit (stamina is a measure of your endurance in an activity, not your endurance to hardship).

Temper seems weird.

Irritability, wtf? :P

Everything needs to be simpler... it's supposed to be a game but it's hard to think of nice strategies when everything is so complicated and hard to keep up with.

It's nice to see the effort that is being given but maybe it should be redirected.

In KP we are an experienced alliance with dedicated players and on reading these changes the first reaction of the majority of people in our IRC channel right now was one of “jeeeez more crazy changes”.

I'm not saying we won't get our heads round them but if first reaction to us is offputting then I dread to think how new players would feel, as OriginX said.

-------------------------

Albert Einstein's maxim was that “everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler”.

Leonardo Da Vinci said “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication”

Antoine de Saint Exupéry advised “It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.


These people knew what they were on about ;)

Its more like FRatW

Fame Rape at War

especially the negative fame!!! I expect a couple of serious harassment times raping a tribe to 0 fame and then keep hitting him till -20k fame!!!

That will make people quit the game!

id prefer resilience than toughness..toughness is like a word i see on nintendo games back in the 80's

i agree with jamzi, even though she doesnt know who the last bloke she quoted is.

These changes aren't being added frivolously just to make things more complex. They have a purpose, social engineering if you will, and they needed to happen.

It's not any more complex than it needed to be. Conceptually the symmetry of the three is quite simple.

@Origin: People that get harassed in such a way will gain significant amounts of toughness. It's unclear to me that such actions would be advisable in that case. Negative boundaries was needed due to the gains and losses system.

Not more than continuous BCs/razes/pillages/raids which are already available imho. It takes time to reduce fame to rubble. And since one gets something in return, 'toughness' (eww), it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think. maybe. I guess we'll see ;)

LOL....you'll get toughness in return.....but as soon as you start training military and explore back your lost land you'll get this:

* Toughness is lost by exploring, training military, and other actions that boost industry. The losses are independent from your industry gains for these things.

So basically you get shit all!

Our neighbor said:

K.I.S.S--> keep it simple stupid

I think it will work out in a way that the more you interact with other tribes, the more you 'gain' on the long run because small amounts of x will be created out of thin air.
Which is quite nice since engagement with other tribes is the most interesting thing in the game :)

They needed to happen?

Do you guys actually want any new players in this game?

There has been great work done on the interface here in aatw, now you're gonna ruin it by making it even harder for ppl to understand it, why is this change a needed change? will the server self-destruct if you can't come up with huge changes every age? Making every age into a beta age since it usually takes one age to find all the bugs those huge changes brings with them.

I normally have nothing against change and I usually look forward to see each age changes list that comes out but this is ridicolus, and defending the changes with the comment “they needed to happen” just pisses me off..

you guys should feel sorry for us poor devvers who have to make things balanced (which will prolly take more than one age). SO balanced that you can play and barely notice anything of it, which is the idea.

If the goal is to not notice these changes, isn't it then not quicker and simpler to leave them out?

The reasons they have been (badly) needed has to do with the way the game is played now, and how that has made much of the people who used to play quit.

The fame rape thing that Origin points out is actually one of the main problems these changes were designed to fix, at least in regard to toughness. The new people in smaller alliances which get beat up by the big alliances will accumulate toughness, giving them an advantage against the top alliances who are left alone by most players due to their dangerous nature. Those new players, in gaining toughness, will have a reason to stay, whereas before they just got beat up.

The other issue that has plagued aatw since its creation, is the arm's race between explorers and attackers, each becoming increasingly troopfat relative to one another in order to grow. With toughness and industry implemented, it is likely that this problem will cease to exist. Actions that previously were a gamble by themselves will be fruitful. If you do an explore and have it grabbed, you lost the resources that you put into that explore but gained a boost that will help you down the line. This means that growth will be easier for players who will no longer be as hesitant to take risks, and interaction between players will increase.

Will putting your time into growth make you lose some of the toughness you gain? Yes. But certainly not all. You will keep most of the toughness you gain, and the industry you gain will be more than the toughness you lose. In this way it's quite possible to have both, albeit one higher than the other.

While I wont say that Dev doesn't have other large projects that it's sitting on, the planned rate of these changes has slowed considerably. Every age wont be a 'beta age' henceforth. Age 28, for example, may have very few changes while we work more on the existing problems in the game and finalize our projects.