Race Changes Feedback

Open Archived Scarlet opened this discussion on

Scarlet -

Hi all,

Some players have wanted race changes to be more transparent/player involved. I've posted a few race change concepts in suggestions, and will post more later today/this week. (Tweaks ideas for a few more boosts to active races to address the 'DE=Magegod' issue :P)

Please give me as much feedback (good and bad) as possible. As race changes are going to be happening over the next few ages, and staff have to decide what works.

Minor Changes:
High Elf



Scarlet -

Instead of the race type spells I hypothesized bonuses instead. These are pretty rough (as a warning)

Ingenuity: Each citizen produces 0.004 RP a tick

Plagued Soul: 40% chance to inflict pestilence on attack, 3% on operations

Martial Prowess: 25% more losses for attacker when defending

Take Flight: 20% fewer losses when attacked by a non-winged race

Magical Attunement: 1 fame gives 0.0015% resistance to spells
(This was meant to replace or be split with the HE magic resist bonus)

Bolle -

Ingenuity: Each citizen produces 0.004 RP a tick

fyi, that's an average of 0.22 RPA per tick assuming a 300 citz race with a 50/50 citz/military ratio. So roughly 91 ticks to get capped sci at 20 RPA (14.4 is required for 25% science).

High Elf: the units are extremely expensive for a race that has to rely on military dominance to be worth it.

Brittonian: the thieves should not generate 1 crown per tick, Templu Amplo is already more than enough to pull even on the maintenance cost. Their forte is out-exploring everyone. I like the idea but I'd put Salesmen on 1 crown per tick and see how that pans out.

Owl: their one strenght is research. This isn't a decisive strength. So it doesn't make sense to punish their citz ratio like that. A 0/5 thief isn't going to make it as a thief. I'd raise the def spec to 0/7 for, say, 650 crowns.
There might be another problem. I'd check the worth of a double gains Napanometry vs a normal Templu Amplo to estimate at how much military per acres Napanometry starts to be worth it (i.e. when have you reached such a high military threshold that the added money won't do much for your added defense). In other words: Owl probably only become worth it after the early game, when it no longer matters.

The new Nazgul are a superb concept. They've got a great transition from early to late game. They might not be balanced but I'd try it out anyway. Their elite cost is probably too high as that cost was based on classic, but better safe than sorry. The soldiers might be too expensive, though. I'd put their cost anywhere between 100 and 150.

Scarlet -

Thanks for the feedback bolle! This is exactly the kinda feedback I'd hoped for.

- Humanoid rp generation I hadn't calcuated gains plus decay, so that was more of a conceptual idea than a hard number. I think racial bonuses is better than a spell though as the spell required medium-high ml to cast from what I remember.

- HE I'm realizing that attackers cost per point is around 10-15% less than t/m. So the o/d spec probs go to existing 600.

- for the brittonian salesman I looked into numbers a bit, and since you can't run purely salesman easily it fell out late game where the extra pop from pure elites gave about the same cr if I remember. Ill check 1.5 as its probably the happy medium.

- Owls with research aren't viable in current science system. The idea was they would max an engineering type branch to get increased pop. Good call on the useless until around 2k though... forgot about that nano (small) issue.

There's also an undead concept that I forgot to link in here [up]

Kappa -

Regarding the Nazgul, if you prevent Nazgul from being able to explore as suggested in your edit, wouldn't that make Nazguls stuck at 500 acres for the entire game?

With the global starting resources of 3mil crowns, Nazgul won't be able to break any of the other races. And their troops costs are pretty expensive so it's not like they can just sit at 500 acres and out pump all the explorers.

iirc, preventing nazgul from exploring didn't cripple Nazgul in infinity (when they had 16/16 elites or something like that) because there were more players back then and tribes were starting at different times resulting in potential targets for Nazgul at all sizes.

In the current system, all the potential stepping stones for Nazgul will start with a lot more def than Nazgul and explore out of reach.

Fisk -

Nazgul did fine in old classic, without exploring, when everyone was 250 acres with even less resources to begin with.

Though since the playerbase is like 5% of what it was back then, I understand your concern. But I'm confident that other (faster) attackers will do their job and keep explorers at bay anyhow.

Sanzo -

Bolle knows what he is talking about [:D]

Nandu -

Although I don't know anything about the races mentioned above, I have a concern about a particular existing racial troop and
maybe someone can work out the thought process with me?

Off Woodrider 3/0 350 cr

That is the offensive specialist for wood elves. It is both the most expensive offensive specialist (per unit of offense)
and the least space efficient. So... it is hit from both angles.

Someone might want to reply that wood elves are not an attacking race; the more room for creativity when running a tribe, the more interesting the scenarios that can
be played out in the match of wits among friends and foes. :)

*edit* in fact, their elite is in pretty bad shape, too. for the strategy you'd be geared toward playing with them, you'd be better served always going with Fairy. the one
advantage for the wood elf being the incredible thief pricing.
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