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Topic: Review Heritage (archived)
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HaRRy - Dev, December 2009, edited
Because of the recently found bugs regarding heritage I decided to look over the code for it. Complaint topic The problems are related to the way the old code(and with old I mean it wasn't just me or Martel who coded it) handled differences between races. It worked by the size of homes, that went pretty well until Balrog only had 15% of max homes and Dwarf had 100% land as homing and without using homes. And another nice one is Light Elf which relies on superspells instead of the raw homes. The only race which always was different was Mori. But Mori didn't need the extra race modifier bonus because they are cheap Some fixes were already made to make sure everyone got a decent heritage, even Light Elves. But in the huge pile of code we somehow missed the part of market credits. I've changed the basic way the code handles differences in races. Not by homes but by manual input of a modifier number. This is less dynamic but we can easily adjust this in the same place where we adjust unit statistics and changing statistics has been proven to work very easy. I'm showing you a basic representation of the (fixed) formula. Please review it and maybe you can give some feedback on how big some modifiers should be or maybe what we're missing or should change. (In actual code there are checks to make sure you never get less than what someone would get when resetting a tribe) When we're done it will be added to the guide. [big]Heritage formula[/big] Land newLand = ((oldLand - 400) ^ 0.80459611995 + 400) * killHerMod Notes: - Max 2000 acres. - min 400 acres. - killHerMod is 1 by default. 0.75 with out of war kills and 0.5 if killed in war. Starting money newMoney = max(300000 * newRaceHerMod, newBarren * 400) + 36000 * newRaceHerMod * newLand Notes: - Max() means the formula that has the biggest outcome will be taken. - newRaceHerMod/oldRaceHerMod is 1 by default. Some races are different: - Balrog = 0.5 - Dragon = 0.5 - Brittonian = 2 - Light Elf = 1.5 - Uruk Hai = 1.5 Starting food newFood = 40 * newCitzPerHome Notes: - newCitzPerHome is usually 300 Starting wood newWood = newBarren * 56 Market money newMarketMoney = ( oldBasicsAmount * oldBasicsCost + oldOffspecsAmount * oldOffspecsCost + oldDefspecsAmount * oldDefspecsCost + oldElitesAmount * oldElitesCost + oldThievesAmount * oldThievesCost ) * 0.02 * killHerMod / oldRaceHerMod * newRaceHerMod Market soldiers newMarketSoldiers = ( oldBasicsAmount + oldOffspecsAmount + oldDefspecsAmount + oldElitesAmount + oldThievesAmount ) / 40 * killHerMod / oldRaceHerMod * newRaceHerMod Market credits newMarketCredits = 2 * newMarketMoney + (2 * newBasicCost + 15) * newMarketSoldiers Starting fame newFame = 5000 + oldFame * 0.04 Disclaimer: I make more typo's in forum posts than coding
Apaullo, December 2009
umm..yeah ?? :P
CBeast, December 2009
lol
Cecil, December 2009
ummm i still had only enough creds to build 225dpa after heritage...for the third time...
HaRRy, December 2009
You should have made a suggestion out of that Cecil We had the idea of adding a check to give players the minimum amount to train up to 250DPA and a maximum of 400DPA. How's that?
CBeast, December 2009
I think that's a great suggection Harry. I usually start with enough creds to train about 250 to 300 dpa I think...and I think this is where is should be. Not enough to provide for immediate fast growth, but enough to MAYBE defend my lands
Chonka, December 2009
I got 300DPA when I came out
Dev Lord Iluros, December 2009
I'd like the lower end to be closer to 300 DPA myself. I've never found 250 to be sustainable unless you're lucky (in a top alliance) and people always look to grab 'easy' targets OOP whether or not they actually have lower defense.
Cecil, December 2009
275-350? at the extreme lower acres, 275 is enough to get buy without being too much a target (400-950 acres)
Malystryx, December 2009
funny i got normal heritage according to the list, but i emerged 374 dpa and 214 OPA immediately grabbed someone of course =D
Kruttekukk, December 2009
I recently emerged with 2000 acres, and only enough cash to build 275 dpa. Sucks. I got hit twice within 2 hours.
HaRRy, December 2009
If we just give everyone enough for 350 DPA, people will just get more off in the entire game.
NORRIS, December 2009
Well I have a massive complaint. I was balrog at 3.k acres got killed and came back as light elf. I came out of protection with 180 DPA - that's not as bad as it sounds because Dean's Hunt makes it 270- but when people see that you have 50k STR then they attack you. 270 is by no means horrible but i am reduced to about 650 acres and i still don't have 300 DPA. Could light elves be reviewed somewhat esp transition from balrog?
Joe, December 2009
Did you use defspecs or elites for defence? The defspecs are nicely efficient but horribly expensive for OOPing. The elites are also expensive but way cheaper comparably and also give more strength due to their offpoints.
Morbid, December 2009
see strength formula guide on how to make your strength big,sometimes people tend to attack tribes with smaller strength..know how to decieve them by making it big even with less/average def..
NORRIS, December 2009
well i am pretty ok now because i have about 340 defence per acre overall :D takes a couple of days is all
CBeast, December 2009
What is the purpose of heritage? Is the idea to give enough defence to defend 2k acres, to defend whatever acres are received, or to be close to being able to defend. I think that we would all be a lot clearer on what needs to be improved if we knew the general purpose behind it...
Chonka, December 2009
I think Heritage should be faught for. So; ^Quote to be close to being able to defend I feel is what Heritage should be. Saying that - I think that the smaller Heritage tribes should get more 'per acre' than larger Heritaged tribes.. digg? This means the active, leet players who get 2k Heritage, 'technically' have to fight for their Heritage more (if they have too anyway lol).. but since they're leet that wont be too hard. The thing is when a noob tribe dies, and gets Heritage - it would be better if he had it more easily set up to be well defended.
Halcyon, December 2009, edited
i thought the idea was just to get you off to 2k and able to hold it relatively safely i guess if you really want to weed out fast growers who get too much heritage, remove market cred component of heritage altogether. no incentive for getting big, everyone stops growing at 10k, simple
CBeast, December 2009
I agree with Halcyon- I just suggested that because I agreed with it
WayHigh, December 2009
yes i agree the heritage need to be changes
Sir. Mecklin, December 2009
we should just get rid of hertitage u should just start from scratch makes the game more competitive.
Dev Lord Iluros, December 2009
The purpose of heritage is to reward playing well by giving skilled players an advantage to their next life time. Rewarding skill is a good thing, but the amount of advantage is the issue. For that reason we've focused on a host of changes over the past year geared toward helping small tribes. Putting a cap (low and high end) on the amount of credits received seems like a good idea. The money you get should help you hold most of the land you inherit, but maybe be grabbed once, as most people are. Anything more is too much.
Mr X, December 2009
The problem is that a tribe that just go OOP ends up with 2k acres is able to hit a tribe that has played along time and that tribe aint able to retall the hit, that is not fair against that tribe. So while rewarding skilled players (that would do really well anyways without heritage), you scare away new players (since it is rather unfair in their perspective that a new tribe can hit them, and they cant hit back). So old players benefit from the unfairness in the game on behalf of new players. I think that this game is so fun in itself that a such a small reward as heritage should not be needed. Let all start from 400 or 800 acres or whatever, but make sure everyone starts with the same recourses in regard to what race they play. And a Happy New Year to those that celebrate it!
Mr X, December 2009
Ohh and I almost forgot on suggestions for the game... when a tribe is near death and their generals are nowhere in sight. Its not fair towards that tribe that he can�t defend himself against semi-suiciders... If one can�t attack a tribe then that tribe should not be able to attack you.
HaRRy - Dev, December 2009
And you think it's nice to new players that veterans start at the same size as they do and thus they get hit by the veterans all the time?
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