War isn't all about resources its also about moving ahead in the standings 43 surrendered while still ahead of 27 what did you think was going to happen?

then why have war status at all - or an option to end it?

Why not just a big free for all with no rules at all?? (sarcasm)

What should happen is that 27 awaits the allotted 48 ticks and re-declare.

When one surrenders with an additional penalty one would assume clemency. There has to be some benefit to surrendering to offset the cost of doing so.

1 - we had started on him in the tick we declared war.
2 - Wait.. you're saying surrender should prevent any ops. Can just as well scratch war. How can I kill a guy IN war if the alli just surrenders for a free outta jail card? If I don't declare, at least I get to kill.
3 - why is killing outside war after surrender 'bad' and killing outside war 'unofficial war'. At least we tried to make it official.

Sure, surrender could yield temporary protection. But if it does that I want at least one of the top tribes to sacrifice their tribe. Otherwise it's far too good to surrender. Eg there is currently no benefit to the declarer of your surrender. You barely get any REALLY useful stuff. What's market? What's fame? What we want is dead enemy tribes, we don't care about market goods or fame.
Surrender requires that the enemy accepts the surrender. Generally, that's no good for a game concept. So you must balance it. Atm, it's not balanced but it's not as stupid as you suggest - 48 hours of free no-go area, let's suicide hard and run 100k citz...

I mean, really. An epic 2% of the research you don't have and 700 whopping fame. That's almost .4% off bonus and 3k citz!

so in other words surrender is useless ;)

I'm not arguing the costs and awards - only the principle. WHY surrender if there are no benefits? Make the costs of surrender higher if necessary - just make the benefit believable. You don't kill your opponents after they've surrendered - it's just wrong.

yeah sure, let them surrender, they convert to warmode, i wake up in the morning to find my ass handed to me on a plate. no thanks!

besides, the fact we don't get automatic regen sucks enough imo... maybe include 5% less damage from ops and attacks, but really. we had this planned for a few days, we haven't converted for 1 tick tbh

and 48 hours is enough for my templar tribe to kill 5 people by myself, if im allowed to run 25% homes and no GH. try to figure that out with 8-9 tribes now!

really, i have no problem with #43, and i understand getting killed after surrender still sucks... but then i suggest surrender mechanism is taken out of the game or else good luck with trying to balance it fairly.

the ops should be blocked in both directions - they surrendered so they shouldn't be opping you either

if the costs of surrendering are reasonable then chances of a surrender are very slim - only those truly unable to war would do so.

As I said, since it is a game you can argue it requires surrender.

That means surrender must be a viable option, which (doh!) gives protection. I'm with you so far.

Point is, declaring alliance must get something in return. Atm, they're getting meager rewards. So up the reward lots and surrender could become a viable option.

What's even better is if an alliance can Surrender and then they're safe, but now, rather than that's all, the elder of the enemy alliance chooses which of the following three options he wants in return:

1 - Kill tribe x.
2 - Market goods (25% of total?) and fame.
3 - Science (ALL science, instantly transferred).

Also, protection period is just 12 ticks (max cease fire duration I believe), not 48. However, alliance cannot be declared upon again by declaring alliance for (say) 72 ticks.

The problem really is that the war system is a relict still from 'old' or 'classical' orkfia in which market goods and science were things that were really helping your growth. Currently the fame loss is the part that hurts most of surrendering. An option to 'balance' it more could be to increase it to 2-4k fame per tribe but this has lots of bad effects obviously.

A good improvement would be to revamp the market in a way so that market goods become indeed scarce again. Another idea is to simply alter the war system.

I like it! or at least the principle. Bring the art of war negotiations and politics back into the game. At any rate, i for one think that as is, surrender needs a total makeover!

It's a war game so I expect ruthlessness. But, Sweets does have a point that there is supposed to be a cool down time. Just because you couldn't land the kill before the surrender doesn't mean you should whine about finishing him off. I really don't care either way, but if you are going to have a rule book or code I would suggest enforcing it, at least by example Isn't that a vets job?

its kp so post war kills are to be expected, i see nothing wrong with that, if u drop ur def immediately after a war thats ur own fault

We have done the same in the past, if we already started on a tribe and war is surrendered we are not letting that kill go away... we even had wars where surrendering happends within 5 min and no kills where landed ofcourse you continue killing, converting and planning takes time and effort and income loss it should give you something to show for not some stupid pointless war win stat

wars is about killing not to get another notch in the records or some fame for the surrender so why would an alliance stop killing after another just surrenders... atleast there is no more bonus regen/damage against them

let the killing continue

2011-06-11 23:00:51 »« FB before tick (#27) has laid the final blow to ~WoD~ Maelstrom's career.

only 6 left on 27 get us


i bet 41 wont be next :p

you can reset if you really want to

wow i can reset realy ok will do ;)

Good! it's the easiest way, solves us all a lot of trouble. I'll buy you a beer.

how about a shot of jack

41's a bunch of slacking nOObs there gonna die the elder wouldn't even PM me back

What a guy.If I find you Ill set a kt on you.....And mybe he was looking at other messages? huh

Stopp whine, if you plan 2 kill some1 you dont stopp just cose they surrendered you kill em until they arnt any threat anymore, Easy no hard feelings get over it.

OMG- I'M not supposed to kill no matter what?

i need a drink

lol, I agree with sangez....If only you knew