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Open Sticky Jamzi opened this discussion on

fear -

how does a 610 acre tribe attack a 2500 acre tribe? that must really hurt.

Mistro -

Well Dragons are unable to get any income from buildings so the meta seems to be to build pure offence and pillage bigger tribes in the hope that one day their income will be enough to expand a few acres and actually hold it.

Sanzo -

Quote: Mistro
Dragons should ... gain nazguls trait for credits earned per acre taken

Why?

If you're claiming that the bonus cr trait encourages suiciding, then surely giving it to Dragons will just make Dragons suicidey in the same way Nazguls are now. [:s]

Mistro -

Well Nazgul are a Leet based race which enables suiciding.

Dragons are a def spec/leet based race which discourages suiciding, the currentmeta has dragons forced to only pump offence and not grow but just constantly pillage, with this change dragons have more motivation to acquire land early on as well as a means of defending it.

Sanzo -

Hmm I see your point.

We will give nazgul and dragons different traits than what they have now. Current nazgul trait rewards too much at start, late age I reckon it rewards enough to negate battle losses. Anywho it's too much at age start.
They will still get an incentive to suicide/grow, because I think without that they will be left in the dust.

Thanks for your feedback. Please don't hesitate to make a suggestion if it comes to mind.

I will post age change preview next week.

Mistro -

Dragons Ruin the game for new players as it stands.

My purpose in life in this game as a dragon is too pillage as often as dragonly possible in the hope i somehow manage to garner enough military to creep up in the acreage.

But dragons are so so so slow attackers that now as tribes get killed and reset and newer players join. they simply present really juicy pillage targets to those dragons who have played from the start but took a while to cotton onto the only way to play. = relentless pillaging.

As a result you are left with a situation where the only way for dragons to continue to grow is to hit the resetting/new tribes with pillages regularly.

I think if a new player joined rather than having a gateway level at the lower acres to get to grip with things they are stuck getting smashed by dragons.

For next age....
I don't actually think this will be a problem as noone will play dragons unless they are drastically changed.
Will they be removed as a cancerous race?
Will they be given the buffs they need so they dont simply bottom feed all age?

Sanzo -

I don't see how that is a dragon specific problem. Technically anybody who just trains offense and refuses to grow could be a game ruiner, no?

fear -

The player base isn't large enough to support any amount of dragons. Dragons need to pillage (used to be raid) to grow, and generally the more active dragons prevailed.

I chose to train off and pillage targets 5-6 times my size because I was getting 1mil+ crowns, 50-80k logs, 100k+ food and 3-4k rps. better then grabing120 acres eh...lol

I think dragons are pretty well balanced, maybe mines should produce a bit more - 25% weaps was giving me 3-4x what 25% mines would have.

Cid -

Don't know if others are experiencing it/have experienced it this age but pestilence seems REALLY annoyingly easy to contract through thief OPs... poison water isn't a hard thing to get through even with decent TPA and guard houses and from my own experience I seem to get it within 4 successful attempts.

Don't know what I'm expecting to come from raising this other than to minorly vent... Possible solution could be to set it as a separate “spread disease” OP with a higher difficulty, which could either be open to all those dastardly thieves or specific to spirits since it's based around their racial spell?

Fisk -

Pestilence is easy to heal as well though. Harder to spread requires harder to heal/remove too imo.

Cid -

Could make heal a moderate difficulty self spell? Means that people playing the support caster fairy in the alliance have a significant role aside from maintaining buffs, and if you didn't have a fairy you'd have a bigger reason to invest in guilds and academies for non-mage classes...

Sanzo -

Ok will add that to fairy

Doc -

Nah, Pestilence definitely needs a small nerf. It is very hard to heal
and when it is successful, it is only for one hour.

Potential changes could be:

1) 2% chance per spell/operation of spreading
2) duration from 2-5 hours
3) reduction of cost of Heal
4) increased success rate of Heal
5) increased cost of Heal but have it wipe Pestilence clean, 100% gone

Just a few examples but any tweak to it would be fine.

DCL -

hi,
just my thoughts about the game nowadays. Ive played years back with a full raven alliance, had lots of fun back in the time.
I joined as random and became a templar. When i wanted to attack someone it seems there were only about 5-6 other tribes in my 'category' (abt same strength/acreage). Because i joined in halfway the age, half of them had way more DPA. Ok, so be it, just grow with mines and build up more offence I thougth.
But then somewhat stronger tribes/alliances discovered a new player with weak defenses and in 2 days I lost all the progress on acres.

Bottomline: i still like the game although its a pity Raven isn't there anymore, but there are just to few players for some random attacks for growing: to few active tribes and if they are active, chances are they are from a good alliances which retalliate hard.. because you're dropped in a random alli where you're about the only active player
Nostalgie to the time where there were hundreds of players...

Sanzo -

Looks like Raven will have to make a triumphant return for Age 93 due to popular demand [:D][up]

GEOM -

Woe are we....

Cid -

What an anti-climactic end to the season for me... How about something to prevent tribes that are drastically smaller from hitting/Op'ing larger tribes, at the very least when not at war? Large tribes get diminishing returns for hitting the ones that are considerably smaller, kinda sucks to play out the age only to be taken down by an alliance of people who you can't hit back because they're too small; especially when it happens outside of war.

I'm not saying that spells and OP's on larger tribes shouldn't go through at all, but there should be either reduced effectiveness or a much lower success rate if there is a significant land difference. I know KT and suiciding is part of the game, and if that's your jam then cool, but it sucks that there isn't really a counter play to it.

GEOM -

Cid, not to take anything away from your feedback, but you might want to view actually surviving those minor tribes to be a grand achievement

E.g.: rank 1 is still holding strong right now - he must be doing something right to fend offs the would be killers

Just another point of view

Cid -

@Geom, I get what you're saying, that it would be an achievement for a player to survive that sort of hit, and I'm sure that you could continue to release to citizens in order to limp along and not die. But it doesn't address the fact that it is an element of the game with no actual counter play and no real negative for the attacking tribes other than them not appearing in the top positions for ranking.

For the larger tribe, pretty much the only option I could see is to keep releasing to citizens each hour... until the attacking alliance gets bored and gives up?

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong I've only recently returned to the game and may be missing something.

Virchue -

I only just started playing this game and have certainly never been too large to not have an effect on these guys black opping. But coming from a noob, Attacking seems out of the question at the lower levels because it runs your military to citizens ratio too high and there's no way to defend the black op attacks of an organized alliance, let alone one that is completely sacrificing economy to mess with people. (That and there's a small number of races that can even think about attacking due to their units and half of which have no turtle defense making them easy targets for veterans)

I think there should be a clear incentive to GROW out of the range of these types of alliances. So larger tribes should get some protection from lower tribes. I'm assuming the mage level cap is to help alleviate some of this abuse, but it still seems like not enough... This also makes sure that for these saboteurs to have an effect they need to also GROW and get/stay in range and can't just sacrifice their economy by going 30% academies and 65% guilds or something.

I'm not sure what the change could be and I know killing seems like a huge part of this game so I wouldn't want to take that away either... maybe a few more experienced people can weigh in here also.

Jolten -

It is something I'm trying to find a balance between.

Sanzo -

I feel your pain. I agree there must be something done against micro tribe “abuse”
At the moment guilds and hideouts are not 100% efficient until 2500 acres, but clearly that is inadequate.

Next age there will be:
- a ML cap based on land size (acres/50 = Max ML you can have)
- resetting/starting late will yield less land
- dying at large sizes will yield more land and more money

For Age 93 and beyond we are working on more comprehensive fixes, that while limiting these micro tribes abilities also will not hinder people playing strategically.
If you have any suggestions don't hesitate to bring them up [up]

Buffy -

I survived like 4kts up here at the top, not like i am doing something right just too active :p

Player 2 -

In my opinion the actual problem here is that there is absolutely no incentive to grow beyond 2.5k.

You get bigger, but because TM power in this game is 'per acre“ based - a tribe at 2.5k can afford to be more reckless in their build relative to a 10k tribe for example. As a result, when you compare the two in terms of damage potential, the 2.5k tribe is actually preferred.

The per acre concept might have made sense when there were no resets, but in a game where most players begin at the same time - players who are able to take risks to grow faster should be rewarded rather than punished.

My suggestion is as follows: (quite simplistic but open for discussion)

Mage - Guilds continue to scale past 2.5k (possibly up to 10k or 20k.... devs can pick a number and readjust spell costs to suit. The flat cost for dragonmage should tie into this) Bigger mages should be able to throw more dragons not less!
Thief - TPA required for black operations to be a (weighted?) average of the target tribe and opping tribe. Thievery plans from hideouts can also scale similarly to guilds as suggested above. Bigger thief should be able to do more ops not less!
Attacker - Congratulations a large attacker is currently one of the most useless thing you can have in a time of war. (Standard attacks are probably best form of ”citizen destruction“)... My proposal is for a new attack... essentially a ”Super Raid", make it war only (optional?), general available after 6 hours (in line with thief/mage recharge rates, unaffected by army return time), requires +15% of enemy defence (like old raid), kills citizens equal to 3-4 times attackers acreage (again numbers can be tweaked). This offers an alternative to raze (which can still be decent for larger tribes, but next to useless for small tribes)

Scarlet -

Where is there information on priest effects?
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