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Science Changes

Open Scarlet opened this discussion on 9th January 2017

Scarlet January 2017

Hi everyone, Just getting feedback with regards to incoming science buff.
Right now science is semi-useless, outside of using it in war due to the heavy decay. Here is the concept we're planning to head forward with, so feedback would be great :)

50% Max Per Branch, 100% Max total
100% equates to 30RPA (Linear correlation). Investing past 100% will increase the distribution to that branch (if it is not already 50%)
No Decay.

War
- 2.00% increased effectiveness of weaponries (max 100%)
- 1.00% increased Mana, and Thievery points (max 50%)
- 1.00% increased building damage on attacks (max 50%)
@ 30% Military returns 1 tick faster

Infrastructure
- 2.00% increased effectiveness of walls (max 100%)
- 1.00% increased effectiveness of Churches & Guard houses. (max 50%)
- 0.50% increased population from homes (max 25%)
@ 30% buildings build 1 tick faster (min 2)

Growth
- 2.00% increased citizen regeneration rate (max 100%)
- 1.00% increased production from mines, farms, and yards (max 50%)
- 0.5% decreased crown cost for exploring (max 25%)
@30% exploring is 1 tick faster

Politics
- 2.00% increased TP/MP burned with Hwighton Raid & Enforced Honesty (max 100%)
- 1.00% reduced fame lost from standard attacks (max 50%)
- 0.50% chance to persuade an enemy to not attack (max 25%)
@ 30% Your alliance can declare war at 600 hostility

Church & Guardhouse change.
1% Churches/GH block 2% spell/op

Bastions will remain, as Outposts are not a viable replacement, and Churches & GH do not prevent attack damage.

Jolten January 2017

With the changes to GH/CH we're removing bastions right?

Scarlet January 2017

^ Updated. Thanks.

Jolten January 2017

1% Increased enemy losses when defending.

Maybe add .5% damages when attacking to go with it?

Scarlet January 2017

War:
1% increased attack building damage

This?

Jolten January 2017

Yes that's what I had in mind.

Also I disagree on the out posts idea.

Free acres probably not a grand idea.

Jolten January 2017

Every 50 Outposts gives 1 acre per tick
0.5% more land lost on attacks
Max 25% of land can be build as outposts

So using a base of 1000 acres tribes running 250 outposts would yield 5 acres per tick.

Equivalent to 120 acres a day. Or 12% free land. How does this compare to land claims?

Nandu January 2017

i think the defense system against mage/op attacks is currently convoluted
so eliminating bastions and combining its functions with gh/church is an
excellent idea and a step in the right direction to cleaning up that unnecessarily
intricate area of the game.

Sanzo January 2017

Quote
12% free land. How does this compare to land claims?

Land claim is far superior on low acreage. Outposts look like they will become very valuable above 7k when exploring starts getting very expensive.

Smikis January 2017

At 40% all military (including thieves) return 1 hour sooner , same shit as now, mages are shafted, they get nothing of this bonus.
I do agree mages are too strong as it is and both attackers and thiefs need buffs, but those should be addressed differently, Attacker should never think of converting to a mage, there must be better incentive to build weaponries or some other attacker related building.
Ps barracks also are broken, they enforce idea of exploring and then pumping 500k off in one sweep, or being semi mage in war. Attackers should never explore or convert to mage even if they are weaker than their targets, thats why 50% is required for most war attacks.

Smikis January 2017

all this science still looks very situational, and a little random

Infrastructure
1% increased effectiveness of walls, churches & guard houses - defensive not useful for growth
1% reduced building costs - what is this? reduce log costs by a lot or throw it away, little for growth
1% reduced cost of basics - eh ok, kinda growth
1% Increased enemy losses when defending - again defensive
At 40% maximum population increased by 15[/i] - growth

War
1% increased effectiveness of weaponries - weaponries need to be changed, so useless, attacker will convert to mage, even if 25% weapons is 37.5 with full 50% in war
1% increased attack building damage - sounds good, attackers need this
1% increased capacity of Hideouts and Guilds - good
1% increased effectiveness of barracks - barracks are kinda broken as its only really used for mass pumps, alliances with say 3-4 uruks and couple people boosting science, 30% reduced cost with 50% in science say week after age start, that pump would be insane
At 40% all military (including thieves) return 1 hour sooner - nothing for mages

Growth
1% increased production production mines from yards and farms -good
1% fewer citizens and military required for exploring - kinda ok
1% increased citizen regrowth - good for defending, not that useful for growth unless late growth for big explore
1% faster Mana and TP regeneration - belongs to war
[i]At 40% exploring takes 1 tick less, and requires 15% fewer crowns - attackers shafted, well proper attackers

Politics
1% increased income from taxes - growth
1% increased gains from Draft, and Clear a Perimeter - just for attackers, clear perimeter is kinda useless now, but kinda growth
1% increase in TP and MP burned by Hwighton Raid & Enforced Honesty - very situation, defensive
1% resistance to magical void - defensive
At 40% gain +20% chance to elude (stacks with eagle) - defensive

Should probably be grouped better and some of it buffed, nothing wrong with situation science, but its very hard to use it if it only helps are very specific situations :)

Smokey January 2017

Do gh block spell damage or just op damage? I just want clarification of the gratuitous amount of '/'s used.

Scarlet January 2017

Gh --> 2% ops blocked and 1% reduced damage from ops.
Ch --> 2% spells blocked and 1% reduced damage from spells.

@smikis, the growth branch isnt meant to be super beneficial to non-explorers.

I agree some might need buffing. They were all changed to 1% for ease of reading/calc.

Scarlet January 2017

Updated slightly. See edit.

Sanzo January 2017

I can't see anyone wasting their RPs to invest in politics

Scarlet January 2017

If anything politics is too good in my opinion. Thats imperviability to MV when coupled with churches.

Put stars on questionables.

Initially i was thinking 1% less hostility incurred per 1%, and the ability to declare at 600 once at 40%.

Nandu January 2017

i agree with you, Scarlet. i'd call politics the strongest branch of the 4. war and growth appear
to be mostly the same as war and growth now and infrastructure is very much underwhelming.
the first item listed in infrastructure is the only one that would make it worth all the saving
of rps.

speaking of rps, would the research aspect be the same? laboratories production same? lab
max same? same amount of rps needed per acre to achieve a percent of science investment?

let's try to look over the exact numbers of the new science branches. also, the new building is
probably a bit much. why not just remove bastions and thats it? why replace it with a new
building?

i've been here only a month and it feels like there is a lot of scrambling to be adding stuff to
the game but not removing or cleaning up of already-existing stuff. although, i must say the
guide is looking nice; good working cleaning some of that up. i'd still like to see fame mentioned
since i still don't know EXACTLY what fame is.

Scarlet January 2017

- the outposts are a from a suggestion to re-introduce tents
- decay is much smaller, as would not be based on amount invested. 50% would equate to around 20 or 25 RPA most likely. 25% equates to 14.4 rpa currently.
- fame gives a population bonus, and a few racial bonuses. In the past it used to increase offence iirc.
- it might seem that way i guess. The excercises were a two year old suggestion. The plan is to clean up wiki/migrate it to in game now.

Scarlet January 2017

Hi guys, Outposts are being scrapped from the drawing board. They're a master exploder building.

Suggestions for science appreciated :)

Buffy January 2017

I like science the way it is, we are supposed to keep this simple for new players not confuse then I thought??

Jolten January 2017

I'd like more science branches but dumb it down a bit

Scarlet January 2017

Simplified in what sense?

Fewer effects?
Clearer UI?
Rounder numbers?
Flat values (ie. At 20%get x, at 40% get x instead of %)?

With p much negligible decay, flat values/tiers are more doable.

And the current effects of your science will be listed on the current invest page will be part ofthe the changes. So you wont need to reference wiki each time to calculate bonus.

GEOM January 2017

I take the contrary view

Maintain bastions for same Gh / ch benefits
Maintain science as is but with lower decay

Indifferent to Flat vs logarithmic curve on benefits - current version works for me

Like the better visibility instead of having to calculate on own and check to wiki

Scarlet January 2017

@GEOM

Just wanting to expand alliance playstyle flexibility with science, hence why splitting into more branches.

Decay 0.05*land
30RPA = 100%, Max per branch is 50%

War
2.0% increased weaponry eff
1.0% increased TP/MP
1.0% increased attack building damage
@ 30% troops return 1 tick faster

Infrastructure
2.0% increased wall eff.
1.0% increased Church & Guard House eff
0.5% increased population
@ 30% buildings construct 1 tick faster (min 2)

Growth
2.0% increased citizen regen
1.0% increased production from mines,yards & farms
1.0 decreased explore crown cost
@30% Exploring takes 1 tick less

Politics (optional)
2..0% increased TP/MP burned
1.0% reduced hostility generated
0.5% chance to persuade an enemy to not attack
@30% your alliance can declare war at 600 hostility

Jolten January 2017

Remove decay.

Have it RpS invested/(alliance acres?

Sanzo January 2017

Decay is part of infinity, IMO we don't need it in round play
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