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Open rEdL|nE opened this discussion on

Simo -

I'm in #13.. all tribes we killed were not in turtle mode. They were just unprotected or full of military. We are not running suicide builds.
If kills will be difficult, small alliance could not have killled anyone.

Personally I was killed in last ages and I liked to try to remains alive.

I liked also to kill anyone else with suicide builds after i was killed.

We are here to war, not ti grow alone.

I can't see the real problem here...

Scarlet -

Thanks for changing to more constructive sperg :)
(Yes I'm a sperger, I play EVE online...)

I'd love to see a revamp on how churches and GH block damage. As is templars can essentially negate CH in the formula, and WE can negate a large % of GH, and raven attack time (even with the reductions) makes raid kills slightly too easy. Either make these races more inefficient, or change how the damage reduction of walls/ch/gh is calculated.

A 12 man alliance shouldn't be able to kill a tribe who is 7k bigger (on avg) than their tribes and is in full turtle. It should take at least two KT's. Otherwise what is the point in having buildings for turtle-ing when you might as well have offensive power.

This should be an ongoing thread in suggestions, as changing formulas is a pretty big thing outside of balancing races (which it's awesome that Jamzi has got into the mindset of tackling!). So put your formula changes in, as I'll drop some soon. (Rum makes funny formulas...so not meow)

The hostility based war would eliminate a lot of complaints, as cross alliance grabbing would result in a war automatically, and noone can complain about war-dec blocking.

Back to the bar and slacking for me ^,^.
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Enjoyed being killed by the dudes (and dudettes) in CD.

Scarlet -

Edit: Shitty computer double posted.

bill -

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A 12 man alliance shouldn't be able to kill a tribe who is 7k bigger (on avg) than their tribes and is in full turtle. It should take at least two KT's. Otherwise what is the point in having buildings for turtle-ing when you might as well have offensive power.


Please explain your guys concept of a multiple KT kill. Idk what that is. If you fail a KT, its hours before a second try with regen and troops home, faster than they can rebuild. So as far as I can tell you want to run them dry on logs or cash to get a kill. So now growing and turtling is better than warring to win...?

The big raven we killed didn't build right for what was coming and also why set a KT on a tribe at all if every single person trying in full suicide doesn't land the kill - some people woke up at 2AM for that kill. Fuck that its already too much effort.

Scarlet -

I didn't see his build. Was more he told us his GH/CH and then we read the tribe news to see uccess (which was really high)

ScorpiAS -

You saw high damage not high success rate. 4 ops out of 50 going in is not a high success rate.

bill -

We dumped around 800-900 ops iirc. There better be a ton of dmg [:|]

bill -

Let's have fun with some math.

- Alliance A drops 1000 (crazy war mode for most tribes in a full ally) ops on target with 10000 acres.

- Target has deflection rate of roughly 75~% (turtled).

- Around 25~% ops get through = 250 successful ops.

- DM takes out 1% of homes -> 250*(3000*.01) = 7500 homes or 250% homes. Could be killed twice lol.

- You say WE TR was super effective and dropped the turtle so lets do that math. TR happened to drop 12.5% CH (of 25%) reducing the deflection rate to 37.5~%.

- DM takes out 1% of homes -> 625*(3000*.01) = 18750 homes or 625% homes. Kills anything lol...

Take TR out of this equation and killing is hard. Take TM def out of this equation and killing is hard. Add _bastions_ (even 7%) and killing gets hard again. If the tribe mentioned swapped income and walls to bastions it might have just been enough - but really how often do 12 tribes show up with 800 ops in suicide mode... [8)] this doesn't call for fixes lol


EDIT (max's catch)^ Even with the decimal place 10x the damage, it still takes 100+ succesful ops to kill a turtled tribe, that's 400+ ops if the tribe is properly turtled. So something like 4 suicide mode tribes, or 8 standard war mode tribes. Even this still seems like enough resistance. Apparently I haven't calced a kill in 3-4 ages myself [;)]

max -

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Let's have fun with some math.

...


Dragonmage and arson do 1% damage, and the damage is multiplicative.

That means you only need about 69 successful ops to take out 1/2 of someone's homes. Or 109 for 2/3. Size doesnt really matter.

bill -

Yea I didn't bother with the multiplicative stuff to keep it simple and conservative on damage. Oops wrong decimal place thanks lol

Abandoned -

I know the tribes #13 killed werent full turtle, I actully dont know if they had any defense at all. However, from the looks of it the killers didn't have much more defense than the ones they killed.

Anyway, if at time of declaration damage had been set to 50%, the alliances declared upon would have had some time to react and perhaps take advantage of the relativly low defense of the declaring alli.

Now they were already dead.

Sanzo -

I agree with Kelvin

d0nc35 -

I believe, give 8 hours before war started after war declared will be a nice. Within that 8h before war begin must be auto self protection from any kind of atck except spy and explore.

Btw, why none interested with my suggest about add country flag before yr tribe name ? Thats really cool to know what country where y are from. [:)]

Cecil -

and auto give away my activity range, no ty

bad donc[8)]

Abandoned -

If they know where you are from you'll get attacked at 4 am. People will lie about their flags

Cecil -

whats san marinos flag? ill use theirs

rEdL|nE -

Scarlet I disagree.

You're saying a 12 man tribe alliance, size bla-bla.

But things are not that simple.
1. That big tribe was not fully turtled
2. That big tribe was raven, a race that's not efficient and actually there in order to provide an early block and give the TMs the chance to grow.
3. All the tribes were above 2k (the dmg threshold)
4. It involved planning (resources on the market to run no farms, a lot of labs beforehand to have maxed war science)
5. Everybody showed up for the kill.

I agree that things can get improved, but one cannot slack a whole age, choose early attackers, raid kill people, piss them off then complain that the game is unfair.

#38 played terrible. Strategy wise you guys fucked up big time.

Actually it's much easier nowadays than with hostility and OOW ops.

There are 3-4 alliances. Just scan those alliances the whole time and see who's in WM.

THIS GAME IS CALLED ALLIANCES AT WAR, NOT ALLIANCES AT GROWTH. WAR IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME AND ALL THE REST SHOULD BE PLANNED TO ENHANCE YOUR ALLIANCE'S WAR CAPABILITIES.

d0nc35 -

in real live, y cant just atck any country and destroy 1 of their village instanly after yr country declare war [;)]

and cecil, there is a san marino flag y can use, ask google for that [:p]

i agree with redline that this game is aatw not aatg, damn this war issue always discussed age by age. and my solution is that 8h protection only for war; still y can kill outside the war [:D]

Bulby -

a raven with 4/1 civie to military ratio over 3k acres or so used to be damn near unkillable unless you didnt log in for 4-5 ticks... due to not being able to kill suiciders outside of war the game is really unplayable... ill turtle and feed my alliance resources the rest of this age and next...

Bulby -

redline last i knew 25% CH and GH was about as turtled as you can get... bastions wont help as they are one of weakest buildings in game... Being able to run suicide strats is really killing the fun of the game for most old timers... not to mention you should be able to reach out and kill a tribe out of war unless that tribe is currently in another war...

rEdL|nE -

dude stop it really!

he had 381494 military units and around 1221833 total population, or 1120855 if voided.

at best he had 31% military which is NOT 4/1 ratio. 4/1 means 20% military.

if voided he had over 1:2 military / civvies

We were not running suicide strats. We've planned and gather science for the whole age. An average RPA in our alliance is 40 and we've grown some acres lately.

We didn't have any GHs since you guys didn't have that many thieves that could be dangerous.

25% GHs & CHs is not as turtled as you can get. First of all he was elder so in charge of strategy.

No labs => No protection.
6% walls when we didn't have any attackers.
7% farms why? We didn't run any farms

You guys had the upper hand but didn't try to finish us off, instead hoped that we're totally slacking and declared was on us.

We've made you once age winners and you've been dodging wars ever since.

This game is about kill or be killed

Simo -

I agree with redline. this is a war game and everyone should be killable. this is the fun part.

Abandoned -

Bulby -

well lets have admin go back and look at first 5 days of age...

5 ravens on 38
2 nazzys on 24
3 HE on 125

attacks between 125 and 38 = 86
attacks between 24 and 38 = 41

attacks between 125 and 24 = 0

thats co op in my book all 10 of the attackers could hit each other at any time and The HE were bigger early due to HE traits on grabs and fame...

you try to label us war dodgers but you were the one surrendering early... and yes we got lazy and got beat...good job... most of us were just glad to trim off the HE who are to scared to play in an alliance with others...

Sanzo -

whiners gonna whine
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