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State of the game.

Open Archived Hoffie opened this discussion on

Fakesmile -

yeah mentor would be fun. Yeah the war makes them enjoying the game more, when we have a KT and a target has only 200citz i let one of the new finish him so he has a kill and that really improves there activaty

Wolfbrother -

I agree 100% Hoffie. I'm in a small alliance now and fameraping sucks. That's why I don't do it even if I'm in a big alliance.
That's actually a good idea. Or maybe in a 12-man alliance, 2 members are chosen by the sytem. That way, they can have the true ork experience with wars and KTs. Bootcamp is not effective at teaching as it is now.

Hoffie -

This is something I am doin alrdy and beleave its working. Also the size and activity of the alliance they r currently in plays a role but if I got a msg saying they wanted to move I'm sure a recomendation from a vet would see a position open in some of the more active alliances.

Create better players one at a time! Our comunity is a strong point let's use it and welcome ppl!

Joe -

Hoff is definitely right that a major part of the ork feeling is the personal touch and also definitely right that the high demands of ork on players is something that simply scares a lot of people off and that we don't want to change :P
I wouldn't mind a mentor topic or system in any way though I think creating it 'officially' doesn't make it work better than just doing it yourself like Hoff already does :P

Fakesmile -

yeah high demands is really something that scares them off. only thing i want from my teammates is that they are active. if they can't make a KT a couple of times thats ok with me. i don't blame them for having a real life too [:D]

tit4tat -

Yes Hoff's a great teacher-- I've passed his knowledge on to many other players and even brought 3 new players to the game that are friends of mine to teach. I think this is the only real way to increase the player base, by telling friends/relatives about the game and guiding them while they play. In my opinion it is the responsibility of the more experienced players that really care about the game to make an effort of inviting and teaching new players.. If your new to ork and don't know how to play properly the game is MUCH harder then if someone simply guides you and gives you advice. I think the main reason people quit is because they feel they are getting picked on and get frustrated and especially when they're new they don't kno how to handle it. It seems like mainly the less experienced players have been the ones to stop playing, leaving only the vets which makes it a really hard challenge for newbies. This is why I think they deserve guidence. I know that when I log on and see a shitty situaution in my tribe news where somebody just ruined my past few days of work I get frustrated too, and it isn't rare to think about deleting my account lol.

Wolfbrother -

lol... same here... But I always return after a week or two.

Hoffie -

Yea joe it can work either way official or not, the concern I would have if it isn't official is that many new players don't jump staight on the forums to look for a mentor, and also how is the many vets I'm sure will be willing to help the game knw when a new player creates an account?

Even if its a adjustment to the std greeting msg directing them to a specific thread then that's good enough! Not official but endorsed should we say? [;)]

Joe -

It would definitely be a good idea to add a line in the standard greeting message pointing to a stickied thread in the world forum to get help if they want :)

Hoffie -

Whoa! Joe has been won over by my idea! Phase 1 complete [evilgrin]

Now jus gotta Convince bolle eh? Doh!

Joe -

Make a suggestion in the tracker. The only one you need to convince is HaRRy cause he's doing the work :P

Hoffie -

Was a joke, lol. Bolle is usually a bit funny about agreing with everything!

Bill -

Put Bolle under, call Leonardo, it's inception time.

Bolle -

Mutiny!

Canadian- -

a good idea would be to make an 8 man active player alliance with 4 new players on top of that...i think that this would work out better because then the 8 vets would want to win so they would really teach the new players how to play.

Hoffie -

Forcing an alliance to do that isn't right imo , most alliances do have a few new players that get excelent training. Not all new players want to be in big alliances though, maybe they wanna be with friends in a small alli

Corian -

Yeah Hoffie, but canadian idea is not that bad... think perhaps a 12 spots ally... u can chose only 10 of those spots and the other 2 r just randon assigment of the system... the ally can´t kick the new players for at least, let´s say, 2 weeks...
If those two r willing to learn the ally can accpet to tutor those two sending the admin amsg telling that they contract those 1-2 newis for XX period of time... if not, maybe those 2 r inactive, thay can kicked them after 2 weeks and wait for 2 new ones...

When contracting some newies for a period of time both, the vets and the newies can enjoy...

On the other hand... if people the newies r kicked the system just filling a whole ally with those kicked after the 2 weeks period.

And for those contracted: after the contracting period, the elders of the ally should send a report (maybe as a survey or a poll) to the admins about the new players performance so they suit those new-but good player in a certain ally or just fill a new ally with those ;)

A noob that is more work for elders and for staff but as we don{t have that many players, maybe can work

Fakesmile -

have 13 spots 13th can only be available for newbies. nebwies then always be unlucky number 13 [:D]

Joe -

These are the things that I would teach new players roughly.

Orkfia tips&tricks

1- The most important rule for victory which you should always adhere to if you want to become the best and the biggest is the rule of income maximalisation. Whatever your situation may be, you can always use more money. Some exemplary measures you might want to take to make more money:
1.1- Don't run useless buildings and TROOPS. If you are small, people will gain little by attacking you in any way. Therefore, you won't need much (or even any) protection buildings and instead you should get MINES and YARDS to get as much money as possible. Also, do never train more defence than you need to keep people out. The only measure of having enough defence is not getting grabbed: if you run no defence at all and you don't get grabbed, your defence is obviously sufficient because it is working perfectly in keeping everybody out even without existing.
If there are many tribes around you with less defence don't train even more but rather grow to get your income up. Also important: as explorer, don't train offensive units or if you do, don't train more than 5k or so. If you have these 5k units, make sure you USE them for raiding or hunting ravens (the ideal way of saving money from explores for an explorer). If there aren't any targets for days, RELEASE your offensive units because they take up space for citizens, lowering your income. Troops don't pay taxes, citz do! There is NO SUCH THING as too much money.
1.2- Don't train military or explore in tiny portions. Spare money for a few days and then spend it all in one time after you got the building to reduce the cost of each acre/unit (markets for exploring, barracks for training). For some races continual training can be good but generally it is better to do a few big pumps than a lot of small ones. It's called efficiency.
1.3- Use markets to keep building costs low. 8% markets give the minimum build cost. You will want this always because cheaply switching buildings is vital. You always need to be flexible in your building types because the environment of your tribe can change all the time and you will need different building types every week perhaps. If you find an alliance in complete warmode you REALLY want to be able to turtle complete at low cost rather than not being able to change your growth-build into something more resistant to killing.
1.4- Use psychological defence. This means that your defence doesn't need to be sufficient to keep everybody out and make every operation fail on you. What it needs to be is disencouraging for your enemy. If it is disencouraging enough, he will not even try to harm you simply because there is too little to gain.
Example in case of a military grab: walls. If an attacker has 2 potential targets, one with walls and one without, he will more often grab the one without walls because his gains will be higher (even if the one without walls has more defence!). Example in case of a kill attempt with magic/thievery: overbuild homes. If you run 30% homes and 10% CH and 10% GH a good squad of mages or thieves might blast your homes down to 10% and kill you in the process. If on the other hand you have 50% homes and no CH/GH they will be very disencouraged: even if all their operations may succeed they will get you to ~25-30% and aren't even close to a kill if they go all out on you.

1.5- MOST IMPORTANT: Use diplomacy. Your enemy is a human as well as you (or so I hope). Sometimes sending a few friendly messages congratulating your despised foe can do more good for you than a total turtle and can thus save you alot of money. In general: try to avoid long dragged-out wars and vendettas with enemy tribes, especially if they are about as powerful or even more powerful than you are. The reason is simple: it takes money which you could use for a lot better purpose: growing. Having some pride and messing around a bit with others can be great fun but exhausting your own tribe in a dragged-out war can get you in quite a tough spot for several weeks to come, making those alot less fun :P
Don't trust anyone sending friendly messages though. Messages are politics. Don't be fooled by their words. They are a way to deal with things, to manipulate you to do your enemies bidding, just like BCs and DMs are a way to deal with things and manipulate your acts ('hmm.. i could continue this war but im losing 10k units each 6 ticks.. i guess it's time for negotiation because there is little to gain and much to lose'). Manipulation isn't a bad thing. It's what this game is about. Messages are free while troops and power cost money. if you can manipulate for free rather than by force, go for the cheap way. Don't be offended if people are trying to manipulate you. Rather feel honored because apparently you are in a position that you bother your enemy. This is good. Keep it that way.

2- Deal with fameraping. Especially if you are in a small and not so powerful alliance, your fame will be a much wanted good from more powerful tribes and alliances around you. Their repeated offences in your tribe doesn't mean they hate you: it rather means they love you and especially they love your fame. There's 2 general ways of dealing with this.
The first one is my favourite because of the simplicity: simply let them rape all your fame. Once you're at zero you will have nothing left to gain and they will leave you alone. Having no fame is a great advantage because you are way less attractive for both famerapers and attackers (who hate to grab without getting fame). This means that you can run less defence and thus higher your income.
The second way is to keep your fame and the only way to reach that is by getting up enough defence to make you not worth to famerape. This means that you need to run SoD as much as possible and have a decent ML. In case of thievery-fameraping you will need to run GH, probably over 10% if you want them to stop. This does take money and that is the reason why I prefer the other way around.
A way to NOT deal with fameraping is retaliating everybody who attacks you. If you are a tasty famerape target because of your low power and low alliance backup, you will have to deal with that, either by running no fame or by running serious defences. If you are going to be really angry about people raping your fame and starting to annoy them back in return they will probably get tired of your actions and kill you rather than raping your fame. This is not what you want to happen. Another problem is that you are on your own while the rest of orkfia is really a lot of tribes to retaliate all. Only retaliate if you are in a position to seriously and substantially hurt the enemy. Don't engage in fights that you can only lose. It's not needed to win a battle but you should be sure not to lose it because a powerful enemy can wreck your tribe quite alot and there is no other rule in orkfia than the rule of the most powerful. You can whine and quit about that but if you think you can change the game, you are wrong. Orkfia is harsh and you will need to deal with it. Deal with it well and you will once be that guy on the top that unleashes his wrath upon anything that doesn't please him.

3- Alliance backup. Alliances are quite important in lots of ways and the most important way is that they work psychologically against enemies looking for targets. If you happen to be in an alliance which looks well-organised and there also happens to be a friendly attacker a few acres above you with a decent offence, many attackers will back off when they consider you as a target. In a good alliance tribes can get away with running a bit too little defence because the risks of getting retaliated heavily are high. It is not impossible to play solo or with few players, but be aware that you are placing yourself in an inferior position if you do so. You'll have to deal with trouble on your own then and that fact makes it quite likely that a lot of tribes will seek to have trouble with you. As loner you need to be way more passively defended than as an active team, who can manipulate many tribes around them.

4- Strategy. Always think before doing stuff. Especially things like race choice and unit choice do matter the rest of your orkfian life. Races have different strategies and also different powers. Ask for help from other players if you wonder about things. In the game they may seem bullies and simply evilly twisted but in the forum or on IRC they are quite normal people able to give good advise. Examples: as raven, you don't want to grab alot and get grabbed alot, because you will constantly lose troops and you will constantly have to build and rebuild acres and incoming acres or buildings do not give money yet. Therefore: only grab acres as a raven when you think you might keep them for a while. As a HE or Oleg however, getting grabbed is no problem. Cause every acre you (re)conquer will result in free troops added to your army so generally trading acres is very good for these races. HE's don't even lose troops anyway! So these races should not trouble about keeping acres but only about getting them because this is one their main ways of getting income! My starting strategy for a HE tribe would therefore be to train ~5-10k defspecs and 40-50k offspecs (or whatever amounts I can pay) and start grabbing anything around. I will get grabbed back alot obviously because my defence will be almost non-existant, but I gain lots of free defspecs in this process while training them takes waaay too much money and thus time. Don't pay for things that you can get for free (same for Brittonian thieves.. Never train any. Just get walls and wait a while)

Joe -

Summary:
1- Maximize your income always
2- Don't defend what isn't attacked. It costs money.
3- Don't try to be untouchable. Just make it undesirable to be touched. It saves money.
4- Use all (legal) means to achieve your end. Try the cheapest means first: messaging and diplomacy. It's free.
5- If under attack, always think why people attack you. Generally it simply means you are too tasty. Disencouragement is the way to go. It's often better (and cheaper!) to LOOK well-defended than to BE well-defended.
6- Don't lose sight of your goal. What you want is fun and power. To have much power is fun. Focus on growth rather than retaliation if you aren't strong enough for creating serious trouble.

Fakesmile -

ctrl-c [:D]

nah just kidding, nice Joe! you must have allot of free time to post such a long reply [:p]

Respect![:D]

Joe -

I think the spirit of the post makes things clearer than the length of it though! :P

Another random thought: if you are getting KA'ed you're both doing something well and doing something wrong. The thing you do well is that you apparently are worth it to get KA'ed. This means you are seen as a nuisance or even as a threat. So far the good part. The bad part is that your defence isn't sufficient. Good defence simply takes away the incentive of trying the kill because it's not worth the effort. If people try to kill you they think there is a reasonable chance they will succeed. A really well-defended tribe doesn't give that impression.
If your defence was already maxed and you still get KA'ed it basically means that your enemy has pwned you strategically. Apparently you have the wrong race or they have the right one, whatever you like to call it. Admire their strategical insight, give them hell in trying to survive and learn your lesson so next time you will be giving them hell :)

Again, it's all about impressions and nothing about numbers. This game is a psychological game really :P

Pollito -

Yes psychological, dont get attacked, be the attacker. If you believe you wont be grabbed you wont :) its all in your head. Dont let it burn, be the fireball that torches your opponents civis to a crisp

VorteX -

eh, dont give newbs a chunk like that to read. instead, make it a sort of “tip of the day” thing where it comes up before elder message when they log on :)

Wolfbrother -

Nice. We should post this somewhere more permanent.
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