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Age 74 discussion

Open Archived Bolle opened this discussion on

rEdL|nE -

Sanzo you while a lot

Del -

I dont think I have ever seen anyone let alone a whole alliance abuse HnR... [:|] Although sanzo is being crass about it - he does have a point. Grabs into other peoples wars are more common and usually more damaging. [:s]

Bolle -

Grabbing is a growth strategy for a sizeable portion of the races (i.e. all attackers). That's the only reason it's not war only.

LB, Ambush, WoC and Mystical Rust are allowed out of war because t/ms need a way to retaliate when being grabbed. This is a good way as it targets only the attacker's military or attacking capabilities.

The only change in this area I'm willing to make is give thieves a little more to engage in the attacker game out of war.

edit 1: @Del, whole alliance HnR'ing is a pretty common strat in reset ages, especially for taking down ravens. It's basically an act of war: you attempt to take over top dog position for your own attacker.

edit 2: WoC and MR can actually be “abused” by using them on an attacker in alliance A which is at war with alliance B. You're then interfering with their war. But it's OK and won't be penalized because it's part of the attacker game. Yes, this might happen. No, it won't be punished.*
*subject to LnO's judgement. This is a gray area.

Del -

I get that but is there any other reason, than the one you provided as to why HnR is that way? How can attackers help take down/retal other large attackers out of war, they can't - so are you just saying we need to war if we have beef with just 1 tribe in an alliance? Just trying to understand is all.

And hey man making resets work as well as they are was not an easy task, and I think for 1 age you got pretty damn close. We are just trying to help get it closer to the stability you're shooting for anyway [up]

Bolle -

Thanks [:D]

If you have a beef with an enemy attacker you can:

- declare war and kill him
- retaliate using LB/Ambush
- prevent attacks using MR
- USE YOUR OWN ATTACKERS TO HIT BACK.

The last one is the main way to go. The war system is just there if you want to take it a step further. The only reason it's there is to limit co-op from multiple alliances. The only danger of it is warblocking, which is why you need to show you are really trying to do something when you declare.

And yes - when you have a beef with only 1 tribe you DO have to declare war. That's because you can't undeclare a war. You can surrender after the required amount of time though, if you want to. It won't affect anything after all.

taNk -

Hitting into a real war is super lame. Declaring war intending to block attackers is even more lame. If you're going to declare war, fight the war.

Del -

So just a heads up

1) Yes we can declare
2) Hmmm I'm an attacker I can't LB or Ambush, and our 2 mages can but not enough since we are all sooooo tiny still
3) They didn't run weaps
4) We can't hit back fully, that's why we want HnR [:p]

So I guess we can only declare to get retal in the early stages [:s]

Vo -

How about HnR becomes somewhat like ambush OOW? i.e. You can HnR people who have hit you while their troops are still out

Bolle -

Thanks for the explanation Del, that's indeed a common situation where you'd like to HnR.

I like that idea Vo Child.

I'd prefer it to be “Alliances whose attackers have attacked you in the past four hours” though.

Gonna see what Max thinks about it.

Del -

Yea that makes sense as well.

rEdL|nE -

and max should hard-code it: it's always available if the target tribe is sanzo's ;)

Sanzo -

Oh looks like I found he whiner who reported me for “war blocking”
What a piece of shit you are

Acwder -

The rage is real. How you doing sanzo?

ScorpiAS -

sanzo smaaaassshhhhhhhh

rEdL|nE -

haters gonna hate

rEdL|nE -

well done with CD SanZo - you guys suck :D

Sanzo -

If you fuckers think I'm complaining cause I got grabbed you are mistaken. I was agreeing with Del that removing HnR was stupid.
Bolle you could use the same reasoning for kill strategy with grabs. Grabbing is an effective way to kill people.

This game is turning into alliances at growth [down]

You can have the alliance back redline or whoever you are. We all have RLs now [:|]

Bolle -

@Sanzo, the only reason for the war system is to prevent co-op. It's just there to regulate violence a little. Grabkills are of course going to be possible, but even then you'll need to declare to get the final 200 citz.

ScorpiAS -

So just because I have missed alot.. Are we getting different races next year?

rEdL|nE -

common SanZo, you know I'm just messing around.

I only have [heart] for you :D

thedritpwnskkkk -

are we getting the real nazguls back soon? (8/8 with 4 hour attacks)

fuzzy34 -

Sanzo is correct though in saying the game is heavily on favor of turtle and growing to win. Why waste money on attackers when it could all be spent on defense and expansion?

Just looking over the game is now, pokemon is winning easily with only 1 attacker in their alliance. At this point they really don't have any reason to get any bigger, they only need to keep others from getting too close.

Bolle -

@thedrit that IS a race that works in reset ages, thanks - I'll add it to the list of things to look into.
@fuzzy yes this age there seems to be a tendency to go all-explore. My initial idea for reset ages was to focus on the war performance during an age using the old power system, this was discarded. The current setup is a pilot of course. We may try something else, but first we'd rather test this thoroughly. Next step for testing thoroughly: restore t/m attacker balance since that appears to be off. Method: overall reduction in off spec cost / increase in base exploration cost.

Bolle -

Also, can I ask #28 to keep track of how easy it is to keep exploring? Basically just measure the time in-between explores and whether they're full explores. Actual income is hard to predict since it depends on total military run. Only if you want to of course.

... it's kind of great to see a 4k acre tribe 4-5 days into the age. It proves 4 weeks is a long enough period of time.

TG -

There is a big problem that this age is about growing and not warring. You can't war yet because tribes have 100 dpa and are too efficient. Although I was looking forward to the resets, I have had very little interest in the age so far. Attackers can not keep up with the tribes with 45% homes as was pointed out before the age started and tribes can run around with minimal t/m def because of their ratios. With 1 days income the moris made the olegs offense look like nothing.
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