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6-Tribes per Alliance Proposal

Open Sanzo opened this discussion on

Bolle -

I mean, obviously my alliance mates are bad at expressing themselves politely.

That does not mean their argument is invalid.

Your insipid superiority complex is infuriating.

Your total lack of comprehension is wilful and despicable.

Bolle -

Have you ever had the experience where you knew something for a fact, you told someone, you showed them the evidence, and then they pretty much filed it and did nothing?

That's our experience this age.

h3 -

Bolle,

Some facts

Tukk and his amigos done the act vs #40 for two whole ages. It’s so funny to read tbh.

Sounds like whine.

Nandu -

I just want to thank you guys for bringing me back to the old days with these
text-based games where stickies with important subject matter (and other
threads) were clogged with raped-my-sister-level of anger and toxicity and
pissing contests over who has superior intellect and self-worth based on
entering numbers into boxes like a data entry professional.

I've gotten a good laugh the past day or 2 reading these exchanges. Thanks!

Bolle -

Quote
Sounds like whine.


I'm missing a subject in this sentence. What sounds like whine? The arguments or the bad language?

Cuz if arguments sounds like whine... then your refutations sound like piles of shit.logical fallacies e.g. personal attack.

Bolle -

Happy to provide you with some much-needed entertainment Nandu.

Fact of the matter is a balanced game is required. But imbalances are okay. However, narrowmindedness and the refusal to change when necessary, now, that's gamebreaking.

Monkey -

Bolle. I will only adress and answer you.

It is not fact just because you believe it to be.

We claim that your lack of a good strategy destroyed your chances this age.

You blame the game. Yet you were the ones that choose your own strategy and it failed. As I have said before picking a setup for your alliance is part of the strategy in the game. If you claim that the reason you lost is because of our setup then you lost the game when you picked your strategy.

You are blaming the game for losing not your own decisions.

You are CLAIMING that the strategy of sacrificing your own rounds to raid a HE over and over again was the correct decision? Even when that HE could only hit 1 or 2 of you at a time.
People were messaging me asking what you guys were doing saying "why are they wasting time? Killing now is to early to make any difference. It turns out it was. There is no point to kill a guy first day. He will just back back the same size of course.

Ponder this. Had you grown and dominated and been big instead with good income pumping elites and hitting the HEs normally to make them smaller making them hit for less and thus getting smaller converts? But no. You went spec OP and could not defend him when he came back.

You crippled yourself when you were in a winning position and now you blame the game. Take a step back and look at your strategy instead and think about IF you actually did what was best in that situation.

We WERE glad when you raided him. We wanted you to raid him. He stayed alive by purpose even when we knew he would die to make you raid him for as long as possible.

Bolle -

Quote
If you claim that the reason you lost is because of our setup then you lost the game when you picked your strategy.


I don't deny that we lost the age due to our strategy. I do claim that the reasons for our losing are two gamebreaking game imbalances.

Quote
You are CLAIMING that the strategy of sacrificing your own rounds to raid a HE over and over again was the correct decision?


I don't claim that. I don't claim we should have won with our strategy. It was a good strategy, and it may have been better not to stay hung-up on the HEs. Not sure it would have mattered though. You claim it would've. But you have no proof for that either. It's merely a hypothesis. My claims don't work with hypotheses. They're based on the events of this age.


I merely claim this:

1) That the game is broken
Quote
#4 Two game mechanics that are gamebreaking. HE unit-generation and the respawn formula.


2) That the events in this age proved that
Quote

How you can dismiss such obvious evidence as HEs starting with 6 defense and going rapidly back up despite being killed twice in three days is beyond me.


3) To combine 1 and 2, I just claim that the killed HEs should have been neutralized for a week because they died. Why? Cuz they should start with just the basic money, and that's it. Cuz they shouldn't be able to just go full offense and be as much of a power as they were before they died.
They weren't neutralized. I say that's gamebreaking.
Why?
If you play a game where you can neutralize the competition, then neutralizing is what you should do, especially with an early age composition.
If there is no way to neutralize enemy compositions, then there is no way for an early age composition to be effective
If there is only one winning strategy, there is no strategy. It's called a bland, one-sided meta.
That's what we got here.
That's why this is bad.

I don't care that you won. I do care that you claim you won by your ingenuity. That is just laughable, when I just proved the win is caused by a broken game state

In short, I care that you all stuck your head in the sand and pretended that everything in the game was okay as it was this age, and that you're just geniuses.

Further claims:
4) If the winning strategy is to pick a race that can't be neutralized for getting killed and can't be neutralized by being left to live, then that is a broken race.
5) If the reason the race can't be neutralized is an OP death formula, that is a broken game.
6) If the reason the race can't be neutralized is that suicide builds aren't punished, that's a broken game.

As you've seen with the Uruk restarts, even non-HEs are a pain. The HE is worse cuz it can win the age. But the fact that any race can get killed and HnR/grab its killer is just mindbogglingly broken.

Bolle -

To briefly respond to your ingenious strategy:

Quote
hitting the HEs normally to make them smaller making them hit for less


This doesn't work. The HE then just hits, gains more defense, and you can no longer hit them.
The defense gained outweighs the offense a raven can pump with elites.
The HE can use the money to train offense specs to hit back.
The HE doesn't lose units.

If you leave one HE alive, that's fine. You can manage that.
If you leave three HEs alive, or even two, you will not be able to keep taking them down. It is impossible.
We proved that this age.
I went full elites right after the OOP strategy and could not break them.
I was full mines. I made no training mistakes.

The HE was a better early race than the Raven.
That is a huge problem, since the Raven falls off mid and late game.

Maybe, if we went 6 Uruks, we could've kept you down and won the age.
But that's a different strategy.
And still a bland two-way meta.

Monkey -

Look who started the “fix suicide thread”

HEs are imbalanced I even said that higher up in this thread.

But your strat was not a good strat and it did not work. Killing people early in this game makes no difference. You can say that it is bad sure but thats how the game is. You tried to use that Ravens can raid every hour (which is a fucked up mechanic) and it did not work. Instead of noticing that you tried it a second time.

I even argued against HE before the age. I also believe ravens are super good but none of us wanted to play raven because its to tiresome to attack every hour. So we went with the other choice. The other 2 attackers were destroyed by Sanzos changes so there was never any other choice than HE or Raven. We went with the race that lets us sleep.

What you FAIL to see is that we choose to play slow races for a reason we play for week 4 not week 1. Do you honestly think that you are the only one who can play raven? As if its hard?


You were the only one in your alliance to build mostly elites the rest was on specs enabling retals on them. While you kept hitting the one weak HE we kept growing.

And tukk can claim all he wants that he was on elites. Yes he was when he died but that was after 3k

Tukk -

Am not gonna finish that sentence [:p]

Tukk -

You play slow races? You play for week 4? Do you not remember your 6/8 activity every hour for 2 weeks [:|]

Noodle -

Probably should just consider their argument monkey, it looks pretty on par, doesn’t matter about who said it or what, I’m sure if you guys and 31 swapped roles for the age you’d mybe see what they are trying to say. You say you guys seen the inbalence and played on it, great glad you caught it, but their argument is on point. Least from where I’m at in Canada[heart]

h3 -

#31 suck

‘But did I die though’

Kairon -

Honestly... 31 failed this age.. I believe their mistake was going after 27 before they were ready... 27 didnt care they laughed knowing full well that 31s ravens strat would burn itself out.. all they had to do was ride it out.

Each argument I've read is valid and I read them thoroughly but if high elf takes another nerf you may as well retire them in fact retire 90% of the races cause I'm sure someone will find an argument to say they're over powered just keep one of each race and make them all weak as fk so all the snowflakes can stop complaining


All you guys ever do is argue. Why cant you just get along.. its a goddamn game ffs your all adults stop crying over this shit

Markamus -

I cant remember if I suggested this previously when HE's were first introduced and OP; and I realise that devs have already said they will be fixing them for next age, but what if they didnt generate defensives? What if instead they got offensive units?

I mean, leaving logical arguments aside, it also irks me that the elves generate units AT ALL when they attack but undead didnt...

Tukk -

@Kairon you and most of the ppl that chime in here are semi active if that and don't spend nearly enough time playing to truly understand. You'd rather sit in a 2-3 tribe alliance and just hit into wars with little to no penalty, this gameplay is disgusting and promotes lazy game play and encourages others to be lazy with you.

All you none competitive alliances have no leg to stand on when you try to chime in. I laugh everytime you say 31 or 27 crying/whining for whatever the reason and you don't even participate in wars, kills, or full alliances. Until you all decide to be competitive you will not know how it truely feels to be demolished by 1 race...

Bolle -

I can't believe everyone is like “#31 sucks” when they are the one full alliance that tried to stop the HEs from day 1 and failed.

Why did they fail though? Listen to the guys who actually experienced it. The Raven strat didn't work in the first week for a reason, and it's not incompetence. It's imbalance.

My post hasn't even received a reply. Ignoring the facts doesn't make them go away.




Quote
in fact retire 90% of the races cause I'm sure someone will find an argument to say they're over powered

That's not the point. The point is that a race should have a clear period where they're best. Early age, mid age, late age. HE has all, partially because of the death formula. That is bad.

Each race should also have a clear role they're good at, but that's another matter.
HEs distinctive feature is immortality. That alone is a little weak, so traditionally they got units that were pretty cheap/efficient (high values) to carry them to late age. You didn't pick them for their war performance but for their reliability, their land trading, and their survivability. Current HE have great war performance to top everything else off.

h3 -

Medal for you Bolle. Well done being the ‘only alliance’ that has tried vs 27 this age.

Get off your high horse. It’s the first age 31 have actually tried to be competitive, and failed massively.

Then 31 go into some revolt and reset like bitches and continue to blame others for your own failures.

HE is fixed next age. Ffs suck it up!!

Bolle -

Thanks for the medal.

About #31... Wouldn't you? Why play a broken game?

That's what's on our minds.

The only reason I post is because I care. I care about the game being broken.

To me, none of you seem to.

That makes me sad. And lose hope. And the will to play



Tukk may be rude but he's spot on.

Lil Britty -

Idk, I personally think the game is great lol

Boats -

Thread has been cleaned of comments and re-opened.

Keep it civil and keep the conversations of 6 man allies as it's what it reads.

If you think something specifically is not in line with the game make a suggestion or make a new thread! [;)]

Noodle -

I’m not in favour of this, the graveyard is full to reduce it to 6 tribes, I mean where would we put all those tribes?? Ohh unless we use them for resource farms[8)]

Shuu -

why not make it shuffle random 6-8 team players every age?
this will test each team team work and activity + isn't it fun to play with random people every age?[:D]

Lil Britty -

Make that a suggestion shuu, I like the idea. The only tweak I would add, is have a checkbox on your personal profile that says “shuffle” tribe next age or something. That way users can choose whether they want their tribe shuffled or not (in the case of keeping the same alliance)
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