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Age changes 116

Open Noodle opened this discussion on

Noodle -

Dark spells and black operations cost reduced by ~25%

I thought the auto fail rates were changing?
But it’s the costs of all dark ops and spells?

Boats -

You thought wrong my dear pasta and you are correct.

Bolle -

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I thought the auto fail rates were changing?


Sanzo doesn't like that.
Survey is likely to see a change.

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But it’s the costs of all dark ops and spells?


That's just to compensate for going from 8 to 6 players.

[quote]Dark spells and black operations cost reduced by ~25[/quote]

This is unfortunately another nerf to thieves as they are unlikely to have the thieves. Cost was never the issue. Unless 'cost' also means TPA cost? Would be nice to know!

Bongo -

well a thief can then run less hos

Bolle -

while a mage can run the same guilds for more damage.

while thieves can now run gh against other thieves.

Boats -

Thieves damage was good last age. Shoot 1 thief took down 6 percent homes against 20 percent GHs. A mage also has auto fail in way

Bolle -

DM has 10% autofail, Arson 30%. What kind of argument is that?

“Yeah but ML need to face other ML”
Well TPA needs to face other TPA

“Yeah but thieves can just hit mages without TPA”
Well Mages can just hit thieves without ML

“Yeah but those thieves run CH”
Well those mages can just run GH

“But ML doesn't go down when you hit whereas TPA does”
Exactly, that's why TPA needs to do at least the same damage as ML and preferably more.

“But mages need to ALSO run academies on top of just the guilds”
Yeah, while thieves ALSO need to run GH on top of the TPA if they plan to send.

“But thieves get extra citz from hideouts”
Yeah because thieves cost a lot of citz, whereas mages get the power for free.

“But hideouts regen quicker than guilds”
Yeah because it costs a shitload of thieves to op and that TPA number is a natural barrier for how much damage you can do per run.

“If all that's true, why do people even play thieves?”
Because it forces your targets to run a double defence. Doesn't mean thieves deal the same damage as mages

“Then doesn't it already fulfill the function it needs to? Isn't it fine that thieves deal 50% of the mage's damage?”
No, because this heavily skews the game into a mage-centered approach. Which is boring since these, as mentioned before, are a matter of just clicking 'Build' and you're set to go. Why reward the easy playstyle?
No, because this limits the amount of strategic options. You NEED to have mages as a t/m basis or else you miss out on So. Much. Damage.

“Does this explain why Mori Hai suck so much?”
Yeah, they need TPA to be a thief and offense units to be an attacker. That's a double citz cost for half a mage's damage.

That said, the optimal race layout for alliances is 3 mages, 2 attackers, 1 thief. Thief for the intel and burning acads/ch in war, mages for the actual damage, attackers for ensuring free growth. Optional 3 attackers 2 mages 1 thief where the attackers go attacker-mage later in the age.

So why do thieves have a 30% autofail? Beats me. Zero. Reason.

And all that is BEFORE the freaking -25% to mp/tp costs change which put thieves even further in the hole.

edit: but yeah maybe the TPA cost is decreased too? Would be good to hear.

Bongo -

What spell gives me cash for self ops? .thief self op ability more than make up the difference in my mind...

Bolle -

“What spell gives me cash for self ops?”
You have citizens that give you taxes. Thieves need to be online to run cash ops to make do.

Boats -

Then guess you need active thieves. I got no problem as a thief...

Bolle -

First off, you're focusing on the one cash op thing despite the rest of the argument.

Secondly, you emphasized the wrong part of the cash thing. It's not about if it's hard to run the ops. It's the fact that mages get the income FROM CITZ PAYING TAXES, i.e. the EASY way, whereas thieves have to DO something.

I quote: Why reward the easy playstyle?

Not to mention that doing this opens you up to enemies whereas mages' citizens will just pay free and safe taxes.

Bongo -

So we play a war game.if our strategy is to sit still and let citizens pay for everything maybe we should play Sim City and not Alliances @ War.. it's how to balance everything an alliance needs to be successful.. not just grow one tribe..

Kairon -

Question.. how often do you play thief boats [:D] it's been a while since I've seen you play anything other then attacker or mage in a full alliance

Playing thief is fun but the autofail rate regardless of tpa or ghs is still too high.. drop it to 15-20% instead of 30% and I would consider that somewhat balanced.. in any game where you have mages or thieves mages are generally more powerful but there's a balance. This situation is currently lacking balance imo and mori hai I've already suggested some sort of compromise to make them more playable but didn't get much ffeedback if I recall

At the moment it is impossible to play thief unless super active
Mage is too easy as you can be a full blown power house at any time just by changing your build, thieves have to train and build just to be somewhat useful. That's unfair. Argue all you like but you can't deny that a mage with 10% fail rate on DM compared to a 30% fail rate on a thief with arson is out of proportion right?

Boats -

Correction. I hate mage. I usually play thief or attacker (this age I wont pick, I'm choosing my race based off toothpicks), ask your BFF Rudy where he stole the spirit strat from... [heart]

Btw. Next age is where race changes will come and Mori is one of them.

3 of our thieves avergered over 40 rpa for the age. I will say that a thief is not just Good in war it's better for research and growth is not too shaby even in a warring ally.

Even if I play thief next age and prove some of you wrong, in regards that a thief is a bad mofo, some will still state it was only cause.... Lol

Noodle -

I made a suggestion in the forums about the removal of the auto fail rate for thieves it’s ridiculous to have an automatic 30% failrate,
It was said that it would be implemented in the next age... the age that starts tomorrow

Noodle -

Need active thieves?? I’ve been a thief for each age except for a few ravens here and there, it’s not easy to get the gold unless your on all the time running the self op to get gold.
And yea a 30% failrate is crazy, if it’s only for self ops sure, but for black ops it needs to be removed, it’s discouraging at times.
That’s funny I’m one of the most active thieves and I agree with what bolles stating.
Why is there a 30% autofailrate???

And yes @bongo this is a war game, which means why is there a autofailrate?

Bongo -

not sure why it was incorporated... maybe to combat the guys who run thieves so early

Boats -

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Pasta It was said that it would be implemented in the next age... the age that starts tomorrow


No it wasn't. Who said it and when?

Noodle -

Musta slipped and hit my noodle cause I can’t find it, my bad there.[heart]
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