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Here's a preview on a new research system that will replace the current one, age 17 (in just 3 days from now).

This is for you to get a chance to learn, and adapt, to the changes this will bring.

3 new branches are introduced:
Combat, Warding and Economics

New Guide Articles:
1. http://orkfia.phpsupport.se/guide/research_branches.php?chapter=3
2. http://orkfia.phpsupport.se/guide/research.php?chapter=3


An alliance's old research will exist, but you will not be able to purchase any more into them after the changes have been uploaded.

These will be put into play after Age 16 have ended.

Each research have a limit on 25%.

More changes will be announced properly later on.

Regards,
Martel & Staff

Thanks to Joe (especially) and HaRRy, but also Ender for working on this since January!)

Does this mean all current invested RP's will be deleted and we start from zero at age 17 or will what we have be re-distributed to the new branches?

quote = Martel:

'An alliance's old research will exist, but you will not be able to purchase any more into them after the changes have been uploaded.'

The old science will slowly decay and disappear and be deleted when it's almost completely gone for all alliances.

i like the new stuff, but i really hate to see engeneering go away, you should chcnches something about templars otherwise they will be as weak as shit without the extra citz from engeneering.
i i let the engeneering bonus away i can reach ml 30 as an templar

Space inefficient races may need some balancing indeed, we'll find out during the coming age :)

I'd advise people to run an efficient race during this time of decay of the old sciences, unless you know what you're doing. It would suck to end up without citz :P
But honestly, Templars + good sci are overpowered atm :P

I take it you didn't forget to update Inner sight as well?

And yes, races might need some balancing again. But races that are too balanced aren't fun anyway :)

So there is no more any increase to wood and money production, ore to max Population.

Wont the game slow down allot?

Oh, and why +1% increased production from Farms, when there is no increase to max Population? Before, production and Engineering balanced each other, with both increase food and max population..

i do not agree joe, if you are under 3,5k nothing is overpowerd. and over 3,5k you need def against thieves so you can to all guilds or otherwise you will be screwed and your are as fat as hell even with science

Well above 3.5k there aren't that many thieves and you should pump money until you have a lot. Then convert warmode and kill enemy thieves before they can harm you and you'll be a fine ML 40+ templar with 60% guilds (about 3+ normal mages, though your growth speed will be gone and you're a quite easy kill). But indeed, templar need a quite high size before they are at the top of their power, where Eagles are pretty effective at 2450 acres already.

@ Bad Karma: why do you think the game will slow down when old research is gone? We in dev were reasoning that the need for research is forcing all alliances into 30% labs or more builds to keep growth speed high and that that fact was slowing down the game. Now there is no need for labs anymore (running labs all the time is disencouraged with the new high decay and warlike bonuses) we expect the game to be faster, since all tribes have 30% extra space to use for anything they like (income, ML + guilds for some killing, walls or weaps, whatever you like).
Also going to war becomes easier with these new bonuses. However, the 3rd party will outgrow you quickly while you're warring your foes :)
About the food: use it in the way you like, or don't use it. Not everything is there to be useful. Farms become the best income building when it's maxed though, better than both mines and yards so it can be nice for small attackers actually if your market is filled enough to trade. I'm looking forward to PW'ing someone with 60% farms :D

If 30% more buildings were better then sci the we wouldn't have built those labs during this age Joe! Most alliances will now loose 30-40% increase to wood, money production and max population.

And sins the 25% sci will decay in one week we will be running labs quite often from age 17 to, so dont say "Now there is no need for labs any more ". The only different is that especially the 8k+ acres tribes will have to spend a lot of money building labs, then demolish them, and then rebuild them one week later..

"The only different is that especially the 8k+ acres tribes will have to spend a lot of money building labs, then demolish them, and then rebuild them one week later.."

Building buildings never cost a lot.. even at 8k. Do they? Maybe I just never notice anything other than the 400cr. =P

EDIT: Remembers 4 mil wood debt.. o.. yea.. =(

QUESTION: So there is no more any increase to wood and money production, ore to max Population.
ANSWER: There still is in the form of fame and spells. Those will be more important for citz now and will be carefully looked after.

QUESTION: Wont the game slow down a lot?
ANSWER: See Joe, we ll see.


QUESTION: Oh, and why +1% increased production from Farms, when there is no increase to max Population? Before, production and Engineering balanced each other, with both increase food and max population..
ANSWER: Is less farms needed not good enough for an answer? Why would it need to balance eachother?


QUESTION:
Building buildings never cost a lot.. even at 8k. Do they? Maybe I just never notice anything other than the 400cr. =P
ANSWER: Ow yeah it really does cost a lot. 200 wood equals to 3400 gold on the market.(1 wood is 17 gold)

ANSWER: Is less farms needed not good enough for an answer? Why would it need to balance eachother?

Well sins the new sci will decay relay fast it wont earn you that much to demolish farms, and the just have to rebuild them again in a few days. But yes, if you dont demolish them you will have some extra food.. woho..!

Will Unresearch spell be implemented again?

well then keep the farms and gain extra resources? You don t have to rebuild farms later on because you can just use the food you gained before. I just can't see how you try to link population versus farms as an issue.

"well then keep the farms and gain extra resources"

"But yes, if you dont demolish them you will have some extra food.. woho..!"

I already said that!


Btw, this will make the varsity of some races smaller. It will be harder to play for example spirit as un attacker or thieve, because you wont have the population for it. Except for mister 70k fame
(i wont say his name, it is a curse word for me)

Food never was an issue. Perhaps it'll be become one now :)

Unresearch will come back indeed, since alliances stacking up million of rp's without investing them is not something we'd like to see :P

@ Bad Karma: I'm trying to understand your point, but can you make it more clear?

'If 30% more buildings were better then sci the we wouldn't have built those labs during this age Joe! Most alliances will now loose 30-40% increase to wood, money production and max population.'

Yeah. So? Exploring will be slower a bit perhaps, but for attackers there is no difference at all (all tribes have the same disbenefits and attackers rely on other tribes for acres) and even for explorers the unit costs is usually a lot higher than the explore costs (and the exploration research makes this even more so). And units needed depends on the attackers again, who have exactly the same disbenefits etc.

'And since the 25% sci will decay in one week we will be running labs quite often from age 17 to, so dont say "Now there is no need for labs any more ". The only different is that especially the 8k+ acres tribes will have to spend a lot of money building labs, then demolish them, and then rebuild them one week later..'

That depends... You can be running no labs and do pretty well with that I think. I don't understand why you want to have those labs all the time and raze them again all the time. You'd better only do it when it's really gonna be worth it (which depends a bit on size and plans/aims, a bit on position and future position and a lot on the players).
I hope that using labs is worth it, but it's too complicated to calc EXACTLY, so we'll be finding it out. If you think it's not worth it, don't use labs. If you think the research is easily worth it, it's still possible to sustain a branch at a high level so go ahead. I do not have exact numbers when the labs will or will not be worth it but I'm still pretty sure that it'll depend by far the most on the players and their coordination (way more than in the old system :))

Feel free to point out any flaws you think you can find. For example stacking up rp's in a tribe is still possible safely, but we are thinking of making those rp targetable in a way too (probably by thievery or pure military invading)

"That depends... You can be running no labs and do pretty well with that I think."

Well of course the game will be slower then. It doesn't matter that "all tribes have the same disbenefits".

Imagine this age but without sci. Of course that would be slower. Now You are saying, we will only have labs (and sci) in special ocations when it will be worth it. So at some points we will probably out sci (because it wont be worth the effort to have it al the time)

Will Dwarfs be implemented again?

Now I understand your point :)

'Imagine this age but without sci. Of course that would be slower. Now You are saying, we will only have labs (and sci) in special ocations when it will be worth it. So at some points we will probably out sci (because it wont be worth the effort to have it al the time)'

What you say is that growth speed is slower (which might be the case for explorers, since build and explore costs aren't adjusted to the lower incomes). Growth speed isn't the game though, or at least not the only thing in the game. I can tell you without any calculation that 2 of the 3 branches will never ever be worth it in terms of growth speed, namely the 2 that help warring and defending. They do not affect growth at all (except negatively with increased explore costs). So, would be a waste to run labs for them eh? Ofc. not since killing and not dying are means of 'growth' for sure :)

What is 'the game' that we want to be faster is actually the amount of human interaction, not the speed at which you can mass explore on your own. We are trying to bring more dynamics and tactics. Not just 'whew if I run 40% labs the last 2 weeks of my life, then I can explore every 36 ticks once I died for 2 weeks before sci starts dropping' but rather 'eww these guys are pushing rp's, will they come after us or are they planning to grow? Either way let's pwn them before we are being pwned!' or 'we will have to engage alli x sooner or later so we'd better start getting ready and plan our strategy beforehand'.

OK, i said my point: This might slower the game down. (And make it more hard for the 700 noobs in the gamepool). And "this will make the varsity of some races smaller. It will be harder to play for example spirit as un attacker or thieve, because you wont have the population for it."


You say it wont.. so i will stop argue (as the mature one :P) and we will just play, and try to have fun and we will se.

That's an option that's fine with me :P

I still wonder what you mean when you say 'this slows the game' if I didn't cover it in my last and long post though :(

You just had to have the last word, didn't you.. :P

Well dont play stupid Joe. Even guy from Malta can understand my great arguments, so you should to!

EDIT: you seam to believe higher sci --> higher amount of ctiz is god only for explorers.. I say thieves, templars and some attacking races needs it badly to.

<-- thieves are considered a thief only WITH thieves, I take it that'll be taken into account when deciding on their efficiency (my proposal: more like 0/8 high cost, and the thieves real low cost, say around 200. And low basic cost for explorers should make up for explore costs pretty good as well).

And oh, Bad Karma: the lower the population increase, the easier it is to kill army-fat guys refusing to grow. In order to make this well-possible even for small tribes I think it might be an idea to higher the max mage level without land requirements (i.e. ML 15 possible also on 500 acres for DA). In addition, add a minimum mp per spell so 400 acre tribes can't do much dmg. i.e. 14 mp for dragon apprentice (DA might be really useful to reinstall). That gives, with 40% guilds, on 1200 acres 480/14=30+ DA which sounds like enough dmg if you're with many to remove the attacker barrier.

EDIT: Army fat guys are even less likely to emerge, because insane research bonusses for newbies are no longer possible. This means that they won't be able to reach barrier size with their slow-growth behaviour. Maxed sci currently generates extremely annoying tribes with far too much army for their size. Because the sci differences are now minimal, the number of these tribes will also decrease remarkably.

'You just had to have the last word, didn't you.. :P'

Yes :P

'Well dont play stupid Joe. Even guy from Malta can understand my great arguments, so you should to!'

Well, I have to find them first... So far you only stated 'this will slow the game down', and when I ask how you say 'because we grow slower!' and when I point out that this game exists of more factors than growth speed you only state 'then we disagree' which I agree with but which is not an argument in whatever way I look at it.

'EDIT: you seam to believe higher sci --> higher amount of ctiz is god only for explorers.. I say thieves, templars and some attacking races needs it badly to.'

When I refer to explorers I refer to all non-attacking tribes. When I say our current science trees are good for explorers then I am stating the obvious, since explorers need only 2 branches (engi and def) and attackers need 3. The third one will always lag behind (since explorers won't need war tacts that badly) so attackers are worse off. Therefore removing these research branches and adding ones that do not affect efficiency benefits attackers more than explorers.

About the low citizens: if all tribes lose their science, the explorers become indeed slightly less efficient than the attackers compared to their current states (since war tacts is lower than def tacts generally and since engineering benefits efficient explorers more than inefficient attackers). For really inefficient thieves low citz may become a problem, but 'normal' thieving races like Spirit, Britt, Eagle, Wood Elf and Mori shouldn't be having problems.

And for Templars I still say the risk is what you pay for the extreme mage potential they have.